We’re coming up on two years since GM announced its decision to ditch CarPlay on all of its EVs. By all measures, the transition got off to an incredibly rocky start with its 2024 model year cars. The Chevy Blazer EV, for example, suffered from a series of problems courtesy of GM’s “Ultifi” infotainment system.

In a new interview this week, Baris Cetinok GM’s software vice president once again doubled down on the company’s move to abandon CarPlay.

Cetinok’s full title is senior vice president, software and services, product management, program management, and design. He sat down with Nilay Patel at The Verge for an interview on the Decoder podcast this week to discuss the company’s software platform and strategy.

As Patel points out, Cetinok joined GM in late 2023, after the automaker had already announced its plans to ditch CarPlay. Cetinok also spent nine years at Apple before that, leading product management and marketing for Apple Pay, Apple Wallet, Apple Card, and iCloud from 2012 through 2021.

While not involved in the original decision, Cetinok says that he understands and supports the thinking that led to GM dropping CarPlay:

Because there was a belief and a hypothesis, which I genuinely believe in, that we are best positioned and owe it to our customers to create the most deeply integrated experience that you can create with the vehicle. We are not shipping devices with just monitors; we’re not a monitor company. We’re building beautifully designed, complete thoughts and complete convictions.

He also notes, however, that he wasn’t necessarily sold on the idea from the start:

I want that car to be true and true optimized for what I bought it for, not some lowest common denominator moment. That’s why it was not an easy decision to embrace when I joined, I’ll be very honest with you. At first, it’s a seemingly hard decision and maybe unpopular decision, but it is the right decision because we are here building an end-to-end integrated product for you.

When asked specifically about Apple’s plans for next-generation CarPlay, Cetinok said:

I look at almost everything. I’ve driven almost every competitor’s car under the sun, and I have all the devices that you probably also carry in your pocket to learn, test, and understand. We already made our decision about the experience we want to create, which is going to be a deeply vertically-integrated experience that GM designs, builds, maintains, updates, and innovates on for our customers. That’s our direction.

Ultimately, despite the pushback and rough start, Cetinok says GM believes that this decision will pay off in a better customer experience…”one day.”

We’re definitely a highly competitive company, but it goes back to something we talked about: It’s about conviction. We have high conviction that this is the right path for us to take to create truly interior experiences for our customers. Like I said, an easier decision would be to ask, “Why make that effort?”

But we have a strong conviction that effort pays off in a better customer experience. You get the most out of your vehicle because now we’re the company that builds the vehicle and is also creating the infotainment experience, the cluster experience, the app, and everything. We’re going to build that one day and maybe a voice assistant on top of it. The only way you can create that end-to-end magic is to have a strong conviction that you want to own all of these. It’s hard to create those seamless experiences. You’re going to always feel the seams, and I don’t think you should be in the business of feeling the seams when you buy a $30,000 to $100,000 car. It’s our job to make it beautiful and seamless.

The full interview can be heard on the Decoder podcast this week over at The Verge.

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